Bytemastr

I have received no response on this or at least one other direct email (on another issue), nor have we seen any comment by him on any of the threads regarding this topic.

Frixzi

Bytemastr,
I guess you got your reply in thread

http://www.digital-inn.de/showthread.php?t=22443

We'll just have to wait until the next release and hopefully we'll have the option "Append Gaps To The Previous Track and Append The Gap Before Track 1 To Track 1".
Then finally we can rip tracks in seperate files AND make our perfect CD copies!

Daddy Freddy

MP3Cue adds cue sheet functionality to WinAmp, and not just for MP3 images.

adamr

Hmm, so I'm a bit confused! Does the copy image & cue sheet option automatically read the gaps? I didn't think it did because pressing F4 generates some very distinctive disc activity here, which doesn't happen when I extract the image.

Adam

__________________
P200, 192MB RAM, Win98, ASPI 4.6, Optorite CD-RW CW5205, EAC 0.95 PB5

Bytemastr

I could not get MP3CUE to work with 5.03a at all, and I was able to get past the skin issue.

For what it's worth, I tried contacting the author and my emails bounced back. As far as I can tell, if you wanna use Winamp and CUE/image, you're up a creek 'til the Winamp developers make it a priority (and this is looking to be quite far off, if ever), or someone writes a plugin.....

k.eight.a

Hi Guys!
I'd like to tell you my expiriences with pre-gaps. There are 3 types of Audio CD's. 1) It's CD's which have 2 seconds pre-gap before the 1st track, that's actually a standard requirement. 2) It's CD's which have 2 seconds and 32 frames pre-gap before the 1st track, the 32 frames are for me in fact a bug because mostly these frames include only silence. 3) It's CD's which have more than 2 seconds pre-gap before the 1st track and these have mostly a hidden track before the 1st track eg. CD from the czech pagan metal band "Silent Stream of Godless Elegy - Themes" (2000, RedBlack Productions) where there's a acoustic version of the last track "Hrob"!
2 Adamr: Yes, EAC reads the gap settings before it starts the extraction of Image.

(Edit - sorry for my poor english - I'm from Czech Republic)

Agotarse

For folks reading this thread, I am tossing in my opinion & full operational detail since I too have spent countless hours reading, ripping & testing the various Gap methods discussed here. Hopefully this will be of use to others:

1) I rip all CDs as Image + Cue Sheet. I also save the Log file because it tells me quality of the rip. (And in case I need to seek out a better rip later.)

2) Compress Image.wav --> to Image.ape for Lossless storage. (I prefer Monkey's Audio for tags, kewl user interface, and with my own extensive tests on lossless I found it to be the best engine.)

3) Create MD5 hash of both wav and ape, into one text file. Then I package the Image.MD5, Image.Log, Image.Cue --> into Image.Rar (an advanced Zip file via WinRAR.)

4) For the home music library I rip the Image.wav --> Image.mp3 using:
>> LAME.exe --preset standard -m -s -V 0
This yields excellent ~192kb rips at a better size ratio than I could achieve by making my commandline 100% custom. I do add the -V 0 because that adds < 1% to the final size while yielding best VBR quality possible. (aka, makes me feel good.)

5) For the portable music library (MP3 player, car stereo, phone, etc.) it's nice to see song names, plus I'm willing to sacrifice some quality in order to get more albums jammed in. So I perform 'Split WAV By CUE Sheet -> With Gaps' to yield the exact results as if you did 'Append Gaps To Previous Track', and then I rip those files using:
>> LAME.exe --preset medium --vbr-new
This yields an outstanding quality-to-size ratio, around the ~112kb avg rate. I've done hours of listening tests with full custom commands, and am amazed at the quality:size ratio here. Note: if you add -V 0 at this rip level, your size increases approx 8% (using a broad sampling of music styles) but you really cannot hear the difference.

6) Store all the APE & RAR files on DVD-R, using 10% PAR2 files (SmartPAR.exe) for error recovery. Burn on two different DVD-R media types (many reasons here; basically, I've spent A Lot of time preparing up to this final point, so I want redundancy at this level.)

Other Notes:

-- Why why why? Several reasons for each step mentioned. Basically, I don't ever want to rip the raw CDs again. Besides a perfect ROM archive of my music investment, I have full control to re-rip to different lossy formats, or improve my MP3's when LAME makes a major improvement in future.

-- PC media player: I use Foobar because it is a very low overhead app, and it natively recognizes CUE sheets (set to WAV, APE, MP3 etc) which is Awesome! You can customize the interface to insanity! And it supports SoundSpectrum G-Force. What more do you need?!

-- Lossy format: I decided to stick with MP3 so I have no worries about compatibility with non-PC devices. Plus I've found LAME to be amazingly kick-ass in quality:size ratios.

-- LAME notes: I'm still using v3.96.1; new 3.97 & 4.0 alpha builds have unsatisfactory results; scrutinize your comparisons accordingly. I use RazorLame as my interface; simple, very effective, nice real-time graphing of compression ranges.

-- Personality: I have excellent hearing, and have gone overboard on testing all this stuff. I recognize my full set of operations may qualify me for the insane asylum; but to me, this routine invented itself along the course of common sense. I've tried explaining it all to my friends, but they get a headache and tell me to shut the hell up. They just don't get it!! So I wanted to speak to a forum of people who do! That's You! If you are crazy enough to follow these methods, and yet have further suggestions, please let me know!

marcsilva

Thank You MestreLion,

Your analysis summary was much much needed. Many people are neurotic about making exact copies for archiving. EAC gets the best audio results, but the info on recreating the CD exactly was no where to be found. Thanks to you, I can now faithfully recreate the original cd and have it play the same way with all the correct spacing between tracks and correct sound between tracks, etc, etc.. I searched for hours till i found your post, and now i am happy. If there is anything I can do to help, or make your post more available, let me know.

-Marc

marcsilva

Agotarse ---> I got a lot of respect for your procedure.

I wish there was not pregap problem from track 1 when breaking into multiple wave files.

blobast

I would like to put a penny in this thread. Perhaps it will be useful.

If you create Cue Sheet (Action/Create Cue Sheet) left modes are equal to the right ones:
Multiple WAV Files with Leftout Gaps = Leave Out Gaps (Current Gap Settings);
Multiple WAV Files with Gaps (noncompliant) = Append Gaps to Previous Track (Current Gap Settings);
Multiple WAV Files with Corrected Gaps = Append Gaps to Next Track (Current Gap Settings).

If you extract separate tracks from CD (Action/Copy Selected Tracks) in these modes:
Leave Out Gaps - extract tracks with no gaps;
Append Gaps to Previous Track - extract tracks with gaps in the end;
Append Gaps to Previous Track - extract tracks with gaps in the beginning;
Copy Selected Tracks Index Based - extract tracks and gaps separately.
Remember, you need first to run Detect Gaps function.

If you extract separate tracks from CD Image with Cue Sheet (Tools/Split WAV by Cue Sheet) in these modes:
With Gaps - extract tracks with gaps in the end;
With Gaps Corrected - extract tracks with gaps in the beginning;
Leave Out Gaps - extract tracks with no gaps;
Individual Indices - extract tracks and gaps separately.

If you wish to have exact copy of audio CD use Action/Copy Image and Create Cue Sheet mode.

Hope this helps.

P.S. I realy don't understand why the author of the EAC still doesn't make a comprehensive guide for his program and thousands of people have to make numerous experiments to find out how the program works!
Crazy world!

greynol

If you create a CUE sheet based on Current Gap Settings, please be aware that you might not get the result you expect because EAC will revert to the method of gap placement selected from the previous time gaps were detected. It is best to detect gaps first (F4) and then look at what gap placement is selected before ripping tracks and before choosing this particular method of creating a CUE sheet.

This will certainly give you an exact copy but other methods can as well.

Prepending gaps to the current track and creating a corrected gaps CUE sheet will always give you an exact copy.

Appending gaps to the previous track and creating noncompliant CUE sheet will also give you an exact copy so long as the pregap before the first track (if there is one) consists of silent samples. If there is no pregap before the first track (the pregap is not greater than 2 seconds) then this will always give you an exact copy.

Leaving out gaps and using a CUE sheet for leftout gaps will also do this if all the gaps consist entirely of silent samples.

blobast

About Cue Sheets.
Everyone can generate and compare the Cue Sheets I describe above.
They are identical.

About correct CD Image with Cue Sheet.
Why we need so many options to produce a CD copy with noncompliant Cue Sheets?
The only one compliant to "Red Book" is Cue Sheet with pregap (00) and track (01) indices.

greynol

Not so. Leftout gaps and corrected gaps CUE sheets are also compliant.

Yes they can and you are wrong.

If you found that each of the three cue sheets produces the same result then you made them from a disc with no gaps. Find another one that has gaps.

Stop spreading misinformation!

PS: I forgot to mention that a CUE sheet of individual indices can also produce an exact copy when combined with the correct files.

blobast

greynol, I see you are so self-confident.
You even didn't try my advise to compare Cue Sheets.
They are identical for CDs with gaps and without.
And it's a fact!
You are speaking like a CD mastering expert.
Tell me please, where do you find in the "Red Book" about Leftout Gaps and Corrected Gaps?
And finaly about "spreading misinformation".
Read the books and make experiments instead of blaming others.
Good Luck

greynol

I'll post some different types of CUE sheets from a disc with gaps so that you can see that the results aren't identical, ok?

Where in the "Red Book" does it suggest that they aren't compliant?